Sunday, June 10, 2012

What About 'Heresy Cards?'

What About ‘Heresy Cards?’

    OK, I have not had any fun on my blog lately, so its time to let loose. Let's ruffle the Protestant's feathers a bit. I think that we as Catholics really enjoy our Holy Cards. They have great prayers on the back which bring us closer to God, and help us to appreciate the grace He brings into our lives, much like he did with the Saints of old. Some have great nicknames like ‘Hammer of Heretics’ or the ‘Little Flower’, etc. The names help us to understand some of their heavenly traits, which contributed to their Sainthood. In short, Holy Cards help us see God working through His people, and they give us hope that we too can become Saints. A few years back a company called ‘Holy Traders’ released Saint cards that you can collect, they come in packs kind of like baseball cards, or you can collect them in sets. They have pictures of the Saints on the front, and their stats on the back, when they were born and died, and the great things that God accomplished through them. That has got me thinking about yet another set of cards that could be inserted as a special set to teach people about heretical errors to be avoided, to ensure that they do not fall into common heresies. Surely the emphasis should be on the Saints, and they should be the majority of the cards, however a special subset series may be of interest.

    Enter the ‘Heresy Card.’ Although they may not at first be readily welcomed at this cushy point in Church history where false ecumenism rules the day, maybe all that could be changed by introducing these ‘Heresy Cards.’ They could teach the faithful which prominent errors, inspired by Satan, should be avoided at all costs. So for example, if you buy several wrappers of cards, maybe one in 5 packs would have one of these ‘Heresy Cards.’ A pack may have the Martin Lucifer card, which has his picture on the front with flames curling up from under him, and on the back it would have all of his core heresies on it. On the back it would warn kids, “Don’t be a Martin Lucifer!” Then you could have the John ‘Old Scratch’ Calvin card with Satan speaking in his ear while he writes his heretical ‘Institutes’ while on the back it lists his most prominent heresies. Perhaps the kids could learn about John ‘Wicked’ Wycliff and his efforts to thwart the papacy and destroy monasticism? Then we could have Thomas ‘Burning Man’ Cranmer going up in flames at the stake, and his list of heresies on the back, and the list could go on! Catholics would then not be as easily duped into common Protestant heresies that are floating around luring them away from the Catholic faith. There could even be several other subsets, like heresy throwback cards depicting original heretics like Arius and Marcion. Why not have modern heretics as well? They could be in the pack of cards as another special subset, ‘The Modern Heretics’ and could feature hellions like Martin ‘Lucifer’ King and Billy ‘Belial’ Graham and the like. This would be an opportunity for the kids to trade cards as well. “I’ll trade you a Martin Lucifer 1517 rookie card for a ‘Burning Man’ Cranmer! I’ve got doubles! Or we could burn the extras, or throw darts at it!” This is just a thought, I welcome more suggestions. Perhaps someone could contact ‘Holy Traders’ and pitch the ‘Heresy Card’ as a subset?  If anyone is good at photoshop, perhaps they could make a prototype that I can add to this post! Anyone?


Andrew M. Greenwell said...

But what would we do with the likes of Origen or Tertullian?

Steve "scotju" Dalton said...

How about a subset of modern Calvinists cards featuring James White, James Swan, Turrentinfan, Steve Hays, John Bugay and all the gang at Beggars All, Triablogue, and other hard-core Reformed sites?
I'm glad to see that you thought of adding Martin 'Lucifer' King to your modern heretics pack. Many of our benighted Catholics think King was a saint, when he was actually a rank unbeliever who denied all essential Chrisian doctrines. He was also a hard-core leftist who didn't hesitate to use or to be used by communists. Yet many 'conservative' Catholics hail King as great Christian. The thing that's funny about that is that when Marty was alive, black and white secular and religious conservatives despised and denounced the man as a liberal, a communist, and a leftist. Yet today there are so-called 'conservative Catholics' like Donald McClarey of The American Catholic blog who defend King as a great Christian and denounce people who dare criticize him as a racist. Go to and see how Donald Mc Clarey treated an orthodox Catholic who dared to question the King myth.

Matthew Bellisario said...

Origin and Tertullian would be in the 'Throwback' series for sure.

Steve "scotju" Dalton said...

Speaking about Martin 'Lucifer' King again, are you aware that one Catholic Church has him in a stained glass window with Catholic saints, and at least one church has a MLK day mass? To see this garbage go to and http:/ Incidentally, Dymphna is black, and notice how she makes excuses for 'Lucy' by saying she's "thankful for all MLK did".

Jae said...

This yet only proves once again that this scheming of "heresy cards" is no different that the Jack Chick's arrogant, twisted, no christian charity endeavors of equally same people.

Your attitude is provoking people to anger whether Catholics who happened to be faithful to the Pope and the Church or non Catholics.

Jae said...

These type of tactic the "heresy cards" is in consonance in the middle ages where the Grand Inquisitor himself, Thomas Torquemada and his knights would welcome you in open arms.

So do you guys believe in the infallibility of a papal bull, "Ad extirpanda" of 1252, which authorized and regulated the use of torture in investigating heresy?

Jae said...

The church just recognized the great contributions of Martin Luther King on the equality and l dignity of man as the image of God Himself NOT based on his flawed theology.

Thus I admired MLK for his stand against the overwhelming forces of evil, mostly coming from the area of "Christian belt ".

Steve "scotju" Dalton said...

Jae, the people inside or outside the church that Matt mentioned in his idea of heresy cards are already angry and hateful toward the pope and the church, the idea of the cards is to warn the faithful about their dammable heresies.
The church has always conducted investigations of the heresies that afflicted the church. The various inquistions were just one of the ways that it was done.
Ad Extirpanda did authorize the use of torture, but only with strict limitations. You could not use torture to maim, cripple, or kill someone. You could not draw blood during torture; when blood was seen during an interrogation, that ended the interrogation. And finally, each use of torture could only last for fifteen minutes. You might say, "So what, it was still torture!", it was better than the secular courts where it would be much worst. People who were accused of crimes offen tried to get their cases transfered to an Inquisition court because those courts had a reputation for fairness in judgement and, get this Jae, leniency that the secular courts didn't have.
What is "the church" that recognized the "great contributions" of MLK? If you mean the liberal part of the church, I'll agree with you.
If MLK had a flawed theology, he also had a flawed, heretical view of "equality and the diginity of man". Indeed, his sexually perverted behaviour showed his idea of "diginity" was rather twisted.
"His stand against the overwhelming forces of evil" was just criminal and Marxist actions to weaken the social fabric of the cities he held his demonstrations in. All of those cities where he held those demonstrations in are now places with a very high rate of black crime, and a declining white population. We shall overcome, Jae?

Matthew Bellisario said...

Unfortunately King's idea of human dignity is not in conformity with that of Christ or His Church. If man is not oriented towards Christ, and the true faith by which all men are saved, then man's efforts are useless. MLK's fight for civil right's were nothing more than man's efforts to make a utopia here on earth, and not for the sake of the kingdom of God. Civil rights and social justice are not ends in and of themselves, but must be oriented towards truth, and not man alone. King's ideology was man centered, not Christ centered, end of story.

Jae said...

MLKs had made and contributed for the recognition of the inherent natural right of man, his dignity and freedom not based upon his skin color and belief that should not be coerce by anybody, the society nor the government. THAT'S IT!

We must first establish this justice for all men regardless of their faith affiliations. According to our faith, all ideologies must be Christ centered, no dispute on this point, however this is not what this is all about, it's all about the moral right of each and every man to practice his freedom to choose that is given by God and that all men are created free, AND NOT BASED UPON ON THE ERRORS OF WHAT HE MIGHT PROFESS!

You guys still don't get it. So when the call for the struggle of freedom and equality by good people like the Dalai Lama under Communist china, Ang Sui (Cambodia),Mathattma Gandhi (English occupation) and so many others, since they dont know the Gospel and are not catholics, all their sacrifices, intentions for the common good, selfless giving their time sometimes blood for their fellow man are all for nothing just because they are not Christ centered? Are you joking, guys?

Let me tell you this probably these people will go faster to The Kingdom of God than we.

Matthew Bellisario said...

Jae, you are the who does not get it. Man being free t live in sin is no freedom at all. Just because someone stands up for some injustice in the word does not automatically make him a hero. Man being truly free is only free when he is in Christ. Was St. Paul concerned first and foremost with getting out of prison, or with preaching the gospel, and living the gospel? Man's true freedom is only possible in Christ, and when someone fights for man's social justice, this MUST be his only primary goal, not just to give people the chance to live in denial of God, or to have bigger house, etc, etc. King had his priorities wrong, just as many Catholics today do, who emphasize social justice over and above Christ.

Matthew Bellisario said...

I wish I could debate further but I will not be able to comment for a couple of days. Enjoy!

Jae said...

So the idea of heresy cards is based upon the notion that since these people who are already angry and hateful towards the pope and church might as well spread and show the world through these heresy cards by depicting them and their founders in caricatures with their false ideas. So by your very definition Jack Chick's ideas and publications are justified because they also believed that the Catholic Church is a hateful group of loonies, heretics and torturers directed towards them! So why not start ridicule and mock cards, right?

Yes we can show their novelties and flawed principles to the world but not this way. This method is not based upon christian charity and that may start bloody wars, in fact it already did!

Steve "scotju" Dalton said...

Jae, I never said that Jack Chick's publications were justified. He's an Anti-Catholic crackpot who spreads myths and lies about the church. These myths and lies that he spreads are the classic Protestant Anti-Catholic canards that have been in circulation since Luther's day. Someone like Chick needs to be held up to ridicule for disseminating outrageous stories like Alberto, who claimed to be a Catholic priest and John Todd, who claimed he was a Druid. Both of them were proven to be pathological liars, yet Jacko still publishes their stories because they are a good witness? And you don't think he should be held up to ridicule and mockery?
Your concern about starting "bloody wars" is touching. However, we didn't start these wars. Luther, Calvin, and their fellow heretics were the ones who didn't show "Christian charity". They ridiculed and mocked the church with lies, libels, and slanders. We counter-attacked with the truth, and a lot of times, we engaged in a little mockery and ridicule. There's nothing wrong with that, if you're telling the truth about the heretics and their doctrines. The prophet Elias did this, and God didn't condemn him for his actions.

Jae said...

You never said Jack Chick's publication were justified? Well, by the very fact you agree with the notion of "heresy cards" and the principle behind it, was the very same principle used by Jack Chick and others. Catholics also have a fair share of dark history by making fabrications and false accussations to people of other faith affiliations to justify of sending them and in connivance with civil authorities to torture, confiscate their private properties and burn people at stake (St. Joan of Arc was a glaring example of this atrocity not even a protestant!) I love the Church to death but you can't deny the atrocities her clergy and members had done in the past.

So Jack Chick justified it on the same grounds you do. Does it make it right? Does it make yours right?

The history of bloody wars is not touchy, it is of real blood and real dead people caused mostly by protestant rebellions though the catholics were also to blame, can't wash off their hands, it's an historical fact.

Jae said...

Matt, I know what you're saying, very Catholic, no dispute however, you missed the point and there is one catholic caveat prior....ONCE their conscience convicts them of the truth of Catholicism and the Gospel, but BEFORE this time they MUST seek and worship God in the ways that they believe he has revealed Himself. This is a simple yet necessary distinction we need to make. God demands that all men seek after Him, yet not all men know the complete truth of the Gospel. As such, on a natural level, He demands that they worship Him as best they can. The Roman officer named Cornelius as been shown in the Bible is an excellent example of this...a devout pagan "who can fear the Lord" outside judeo- christian religion and it is equally true that erroneous people do have rights which must be respected. To not respect the rights of human beings with regard to religious freedom is to do violence to the common good and to public order. Again, this does not conflict with prior papal and Church teaching.

The religious impulse can only find its true end in the Church Jesus founded. But if we do not allow people the freedom to find their way into the Church, they may not arrive there. The specific obligation to practice the true religion logically requires the more general right to be religious.

The religious impulse is not specifically Catholic but more general. I was attracted to many women before getting married but now I am nuptially bonded to the RIGHT one. Logically, I had to date many people before finding the right one. It is unreasonable to assume that I would pick the right one on the first date.

Matt said, " Just because someone stands up for some injustice in the world does not automatically make him a hero".

Probably for you that someone is not a hero but for many men of goodwill who know and fight what injustice means, that someone is a hero. The Church did, the popes did because of what that someone stood for, the common good of his fellow men and love of his country inspite of and against an overwhelming evil, violence and danger.

Jesus said, "There is no greater love than to lay down one's life for one's friends" (John 15:13).
(Luke 10:29-35) The parable of good Samaritan, a Jewish traveler beaten, robbed and left half dead along the road. First a priest and then a Levite come by, but avoid the half-dead man. Finally a Samaritan comes by and the rest is history. Why did Jesus made an example of this man, this Samaritan who was considered sub-human by His people (the Isralites) who have no good knowledge about God yet Christ raised him to a true hero?

Steve "scotju" Dalton said...

Jae, I'm well aware that many Catholics have done bloody deeds throughout history,but what does that prove? The only thing that it proves to me is that they fell short of the mark because of the weakness of the flesh.
The other faith affilations you are whinning about were the heretics who were trying their best to destroy the church. These people were more than willing to wage war on the Catholic populations through subverison and bloodshed. That's why the Catholics during those times got rough with them, they didn't appreciate their church and their country being corrupted and subverted by militant Christ haters.
Joan of Arc was the victim of political intrigue between the English and the French. Her heresy trial was a political show trial put on by the English. A church court reviewed the case some years later and exonerated her.

Jae said...

Steve, I agree with you about the obvious weakness of the flesh as the culprit of catholics' bloody rampage but whining about the reformers is far from it rather NOT all of them wanted to destroy the Catholic Church, some had valid arguments against the corruption within the Church and wanted to reform her within. Anyways, at the end of the day, some people just don't agree with our interpretation of the Scripture and the Church, so what are we going to do with it?

St. Joan's case only proved my point with history behind it, that a valid catholic Bishop of the Catholic Church had played and connived with civil authorities to make fabrications thus to torture and condemn her to death by burning at stake. Yes, it was a political show but the mere fact some high ranking clergy played a major part was a very dark spot in our history and proved my point once again that Catholics in the hierarchy are not imune to make atrocities to their fellow Christians. Yes, the Church court some years later exonerated her but the damage and injustice had already been done.....SHE IS BURNED DEAD ALREADY!