Saint Thomas Aquinas

Wednesday, January 26, 2011

Catholic "Christian" Doctrine vs Protestant "Manmade" Doctrine

The venomous ex-Catholic John Bugay is up to his shenanigans over at Beggars All again, misrepresenting the Catholic faith like he always does. He has conjured up a ridiculous chart this time where he tries to say that Protestantism has Jesus at its core, while Catholicism does not. Well, if you really want to understand the difference between the two, below are my two visual examples. Quite frankly the Catholic believes in Jesus, and everything Jesus said and did because He is God! Likewise, when Jesus told us to listen to those whom He sent, we listen to Him because He is God! On the other end of the spectrum we have the old Protestant doctrine of the "believe in yourself, believe me" faith. That is, you believe in your own ability to think for yourself and determine what you think Jesus taught, and then you insist that everyone believe you. Why? Well its because you are so awesome and so full of Biblical knowledge that everyone should just naturally bow down to you. It doesn't matter that you weren't sent by Jesus, you just proclaim it, and everyone should believe you.

The Catholic Example
The Protestant Example

9 comments:

TheDen said...

Matt,

Actually, by Bugay's standards, that post wasn't really that bad. I made a correction that Christ is also at the center but for the most part, it's pretty accurate AND it's not as venomous as his other posts.

I put a comment down and am interested to see the reaction to it.

I think if we keep presenting Catholic truth on Beggars All, I don't think it can be argued against.

Peace.

scotju said...

The chart presented by Bugay on Protestantism was an accurate depiction of the fragmentation of that movement. Bugay could have added dispensationalism and pentacostalism to his three-ring circus as well. Or how about federal vision!? If this keeps p, this might require another circle!

Neil Parille said...

This is one of the reasons I don't like religious polemics. Regardless of what one thinks about Protestantism, is it "man made" to try to determine what the Bible says and apply to it to life? Don't Catholics have a duty to look at what the peope says about ecumenicalism and interrerligous dialogue (the "assisi event") and determine if it is consistent with catholic doctrine. Why not follow every word that comes out of the mouth of the pope like Mark Shea?

Take the extreme asceticism of the middle ages, for example St. Catherine of Sienna eating the puss from lepers. I can't judge any particular case, but doesn't this sound like trying to give the glory to the person and not to God?

scotju said...

Neil, as laypeople, we are to se our powers of discernment to see what the scriptures say, but we can't do the 'me and Jesus' bit the Protestants use. God gave a teaching ministry to the apostles and their successors and made Peter and his successors the head shepard in charge. It is from their oral and written traditions that we know what we are to believe for salvation's sake. It is from Peter's binding and loosing authority that controversies are settled. If we didn't have this, we would have heresies permanenty rooted in the Church just like the Prots do.

Matthew Bellisario said...

Yes, the main point here is not aimed at individuals trying to live the Scriptures, but it is aimed at doctrine and dogma which all Christians are to be united on. For instance, the Catholic Church is united on its teachings concerning baptism, the Eucharist, confirmation, the forgiveness of sins, etc, etc. The Protestant has no unity on any of these doctrines. That is the point made here.

TheDen said...

Neil,

I'm catching a different nuance from you than Scott and Matt are.

NP: "is it "man made" to try to determine what the Bible says and apply to it to life"

In a sense, yes it is "man made." That's why you can't do that. The authority is not Scripture. The authority is the Church. Scripture, however, is God's word. It is God speaking to us. So, when we read Scripture it is God speaking to us. We are not called to tear apart Scripture verses. The Scripture verses tear us apart.

Scripture, however must be read "through the lens of the Church." So, when we read Scripture, we are free to read and interpret it and let it tear us apart but we read it so that it does not conflict with Church teaching.


NP: "Don't Catholics have a duty to look at what the peope says about ecumenicalism and interrerligous dialogue (the "assisi event") and determine if it is consistent with catholic doctrine. Why not follow every word that comes out of the mouth of the pope like Mark Shea?"

Yes, Catholics have a duty to scrutinize everything that is said and done by the Pope and read everything that is in Scripture. Obviously, if the Pope is sinning, we have the responsibility to speak out against it. Catherine of Siena actually admonished the Pope for living in Avignon, France.

Regarding the interreligious dialogue, the Church (especially the Pope) has the responsibility to call all people to Christ. We also recognize that there is SOME truth in all religions and to find the commonality between for example Christianity and Buddhism or Islam can draw people to Christ with the goal of eventually drawing all men to Him which is Christ's desire.

NP: "Take the extreme asceticism of the middle ages, for example St. Catherine of Sienna eating the puss from lepers. I can't judge any particular case, but doesn't this sound like trying to give the glory to the person and not to God?"

No, that's not correct. What she's doing is caring for them as if they are Christ. Back then (and even today?) people were so repulsed by a leper that they would not even look at them. St. Catherine LOVED them per Matthew 25:35-40. She was living the Gospel. That's not glorifying man. That's glorifying Christ.

Andrew said...

"Quite frankly the Catholic believes in Jesus, and everything Jesus said and did because He is God!"

And just to be safe you guys even make stuff up that he didn't really say, and you believe that too. You've really got all your bases covered there, Matthew.

Alexander Greco said...

Andrew,

Boring...

Redeemed0779 said...

I left my religion of catholism to follow christ.i just dont believe in the catholic church.jesus stuff is true but all the sacraments and relifious stuff are manmade period.catholics I note go to well catechism or forefather or church teaching says so and so.they never say thus says the lord.peter being first pope is laughable.why dont eastern orthodox accept pope.think.i will just believe in what jesus taught.goodbye catholic church....