Saint Thomas Aquinas

Wednesday, February 2, 2011

More from the Jerk Mark Shea

OK, I am really getting tired of Mark Shea now. Now he has really gone off the deep end. Aside from his usual pompous, loud mouthed rhetoric, he has now accused me of commenting on his blog as a guest, when he banned me from it months ago! I just tried to comment over there to retort to an accusation made against me and it won't even allow me to comment on it. Here is the deal. Shea put another antagonizing post on Fr. Euteneuer today. A friend of mine calls me up and asks if I had commented on it. I had not. Then he goes on to tell me that Shea is calling me out on his blog for something an anonymous guest commenter posted in the combox. Go to the post above and read through the combox. It appears that someone commented against Shea, and he just assumed it was me and that I was afraid to make my presence known. Now, anyone who knows me, clearly understands that I could care less what people think about me concerning my views on Catholicism, or even my opinions in general for that matter. In fact I have addressed Shea numerous times directly on his blog as well as mine, yet after an anonymous commenter posted something he didn't like, he wrote a nasty accusation against me. This really lets you know what kind of guy Shea is. Again, I call Catholics to quit inviting this jerk to your parishes and make the guy get a real job, because he has no business doing Catholic apologetics.

Here is the charity that Shea regularly shows on his blog.

"By the way, "guest".  If you are Matthew Bellisario could you grow a pair and acquire the guts to sign your name to your carping, nasty, accusatory posts?"

What is he talking about?  I tried to respond to this false accusation. But I checked with my buddy and he tells me it has not posted. Why? Because he had banned me months ago from his blog because he did not like my comments. So tell me, how can the anonymous comment be from me when he has my computer blocked from commenting? I guess he forgot that part before he opened his mouth. 

I responded with the following. 

"Nice Mark. This really shows how big of an ass you really are. Have I ever commented and not signed my name to it? A buddy of mine called me and told me about this comment. If I have something to say son, I say it. I am not afraid of making my comments public. I would think that you can see that by my posts on my blog where I address you and your assinine comments directly. Don't ever get on the net and accuse me of anything like this. We can all see how slanderous you are towards fellow Catholics, and I for one don't care for it. Your maximum death accusations have all been addressed, and as always you come off looking like an ass. If I were (you) I would worry about your welfare as a Catholic apologist. Because from (what) I can see, many people seem to be gettting tired of your empty rhetoric. You are a real jerk."


Lets see how bold Mark Shea really is. Here is my public challenge. I will debate him in public or in writing concerning his "maximum death" accusations concerning the death penalty. Lets see who has the guts to put his money where his mouth is. 

20 comments:

Alexander Greco said...

Agreed. Shea is the pathetic one who shies away from holding his opinion to any test. How nice, ban you because he would rather avoid actually interacting with your comments, and then in his hast to pass judgment against you he had forgotten that you were already banned. Pride can be a damning thing Mark, just ask Satan. Maybe you should retire your pseudo-omniscience, it just isn't persuasive.

Alexander Greco said...

I don't know, considering the costs for the value of his presence might be too expensive.
Costs and Other Stuff*

$1000 for one talk
$1200 for two talks
$1400 for three talks
$1600 for four talks.

Travel: Air travel (including luggage costs) and/or other transportation is covered by the parish or sponsoring group.
Food and Lodging: Accommodations are covered by the parish or sponsoring group.
Book table: I will supply and sign my own books. I will need someone from the parish or sponsoring group to staff the book table for me.

Next he will demand some sort of healthcare gift subsidy. I would stick with a written debate, but this will probably not happen. It is just so much easier to call us names and act like a coward.

Alexander Greco said...

But hey, if people find value in his drivel and don't mind paying those prices for it, good for them.

Matthew Bellisario said...

Wow, all I can say is anyone who pays to have this jerk speak at their parish must be out of their minds! 1000 bucks to have this jerk give you an infomercial so he can sell his lame books? Come on. I would pay 1000 bucks to shit him up for a week. :)

Matthew Bellisario said...

I meant shut, not shit. :(

Victoria said...

I will debate him in public or in writing

I am not a fan of public debates because I don't think they prove anything about the topic rather they show who is adept at the debate method and who, maybe only on that night, isn't a good debater.

scotju said...

The reason why MS is able to pull stuff like this is that he has never been subjected to real church discipline for his behaviors. Oh, his fellow apologists, like Jimmy Akin tried to reason with him, but since Akin has no real authority to discipline, Shea just went his merry way. The people who have been hurt by Shea need to contact his bishop and make formal complaints. If the Bishop refuses to do his duty, or if Shea refuses to respond to discipline, lawsuits may be the way to go. Bottom line, it's time to stop reasoning with him and demand formal church action concerning his behavior. He has proven time and time again that he will slander, vilify, and libel at the drop of a hat. We can correct and rebuke him untill the cows come home, bt the only way he'll ever be brought to heel is by formal church sanction. So start sending those e-mails, cards, letters, faxes and phone calls to the Bishop of Seattle if yor tried of Shea's tomfoolry.

Matthew Bellisario said...

Your opinion is duly noted Victoria. While that may be the case sometimes, a debate can often present an opportunity to bring to light the weakness or strength of a particular argument. If one has spent the time researching his or her position, and they feel confident enough to blog about all of the time, making accusations about people who hold to a certain position, then they should at least be willing to engage in a serious discussion about it in a formal setting. At least that is my opinion.

Matthew Bellisario said...

I have no intention of filing any lawsuits here. The bottom line is, as long as people are willing to put up with him and pay him to come and speak at their parishes, then nothing is going to change. In my opinion, he can either clean up his act, or eventually people are going to look elsewhere for Catholic speakers. I doubt his bishop is going to do anything. You can try and write him if you like and see what happens.

Alexander Greco said...

I tend to believe that formal written debates would be more fruitful. Mark Shea should man-up.

scotju said...

When I mentioned lawsuits, I wasn't doing it to encourage you to file one, I was merely illustrating that if Shea isn't roped in by his bishop, it might be nessasary for someone to do it if his poison mouth and pen finally does something that merits one. I would prefer that the Catholic reading public would just stop buying his books, but I think too many of them are very swallow in their discernment of character and intellect. I think one way for the bishops can reign in loose cannons like Shea is to establish a board of certification for apologists. The board would grant licenses to apologists who could meet the standards for spirital, moral, orthodoxy, and educational requirements that a good apologist needs. If they can't meet them, no license, no apologitics.

Alexander Greco said...

scotju,

That certainly is an intriguing idea, especially if the title bears the name Catholic. The potential problems as I see it are that the orthodoxy of the materials would only be as orthodox as the board which licenses the blogger. With the nature of blogging, a license would have to be periodically renewed, but you still have the problem of the orthodoxy of the board. I imagine that this could actually aggravate any bad situation we face now because it would give the blogger a sense of credibility, seeing how they are then diocesan approved.

Cory Tucholski said...

Scotju brings up an intriguing point: licensing or certifying apologists. That's a great idea, and it may cut down on some bad apologetics. But that's not the real problem here; the real problem is one of blogging in general.

As it stands, a person of simian intellect who can invent (or co-opt) a name, come up with a reasonably catchy URL, and push the "NEXT" button two or three times can set up a WordPress or a Blogger account. From there, it is child's play to start publishing your own material in the wonderful world of Web 2.0.

Personally, I average 1,200-2,000 hits per month WITHOUT actively promoting my site. However, if our hypothetical simian made a few trips to StumbleUpon, Digg, or Delicious to vote his posts up, he could send a ridiculous amount of traffic to his website. I don't do that out of pure laziness, which I readily admit. I'd be far more popular if I spent a few minutes a day on content sharing websites promoting my posts.

But this isn't about me. The point is that, at the end of the day, our simian could get triple or quadruple the traffic I just reported with a little promotion. And after dealing with Internet atheists for about three years, I can tell you that they believe ANYTHING that defaces God or the Christian faith, even if it is demonstrably untrue.

The problem isn't regulating who can do apologetics online. The problem is that blogs in general are considered reliable sources by many web content consumers. They aren't. As in my example, any idiot can create and promote a blog, then enjoy thousands of hits per day for his ramblings that conform to no known set of journalistic ethics. All for the cost of a domain name, which you can buy for very cheap from GoDaddy.com.

Certification for Catholic apologists? GOOD. Convincing bloggers in general to conform to journalistic ethics, like simple fact-checking and libel laws? BETTER!

scotju said...

Cory's idea of getting bloggers to conform to journalistic ethics, along with my certification idea is a good one, but you would still need some sort of body who could enforce those standards. The bishops of the dioceses would naturally be the one to appoint members to such a board. I realize the current state of orthodoxy in the Church might make this an iffy proposition, but we can't allow this kind of nonsense to go on forever. Future bishops might ban lay apologetics all together, and allow only themselves, priests, and deacons to do such work.

croixmom said...

Or maybe just let Shea's comments ring hollow. Nothing makes a bully crazier than to be ignored -- especially by the target of his attacks.
Smile and wave, gentlemen. Smile and wave.

scotju said...

Croixmom, most of us would like to ignore Shea. The only problem with that ideal is that he is extremely aggresive and vindictive. If someone dares to disagree with him on one of his hobby horses, like the death penalty, he will not hesitate to stalk and harass that person for years on end. The Catholic blogging community knows Shea is a weirdo, but the most they will do is offer mild criticism about his ideas, rather than his, IMHO, dangerous behaviour. Based on what I've read over the years on this type of behavior, I think Shea is a deeply disturbed individual. If he was a nobody who kept to himself, he wouldn't be a problem. Unfortunatly, he has been made into a star in the apologetics community by people who should know better. And, with very few exceptions, nobody wants to rock the boat.

GADEL said...

I pray that You and Mark Shea make peace someday. I've tried to write you concerning Mr. Shea but you usually ignore my post. Remember on Gmail?

I'm not here to defend Mark Shea or offend you either. But Mr. Shea has a point in assuming that the "Guess" is You. Why? In this tech world you don't have to have a degree in I.T like myself to know of Proxy Servers and Proxy Sites. You just log on to these site and select the type of Proxy servers you want where Anonymous etc. You can be in U.S. and be using a Chinese or German proxy. I use proxy a lot. Especially when I want to view certain sites that have been censored from my country Ghana.

You guys should smoke the pipe. And Matthew I'm still waiting for the response to my Gmail.

I however love how you respond to Turretinfan. He said "CATHOLICS ARE NOT ORTHODOX" i.e. The Reformed Faith is rather authentic and Orthodox after I asked him to give me his opinion about a video I made entitled "Are Catholics Christians?" I wonder who a Catholic is.

Pax Christi.

Matthew Bellisario said...

Hi Gadel, I did not get your private email. Perhaps you can try sending it to me again. As far as Shea goes, I find it disgusting that he wold assume that I was the Guest on his blog when he knows very well that I have never been afraid to confront his opinion in public before. He simply accused me of something I did not do, and then never even attempted to apologize for it. In my opinion he s a disgrace. For this and other obvious reasons, he has no place in Catholic apologetics, period,

Alexander Greco said...

I find it interesting that Shea calls for Matt to "grow a pair" and sign his name to a comment which Shea rashly assumes to be from Matt, but then when Matt adamantly denies being the author of the comment, Shea's conscious apparently does not cause him any compulsion to retract his accusation and apologize. Yet we are supposed to buy into the idea that Shea is an authority on the Catholic faith and virtues? Hasn't he written an examination of conscious somewhere?

Ah, yes: http://www.holyspiritinteractive.net/columns/markshea/sheavings/39.asp

Perhaps he should go back and read it.

GADEL said...

Catholic Character Assassination?
Hi Matthew :),

Greetings from West Africa. I would please like you to clarify your latest blog post on Mark Shea. It seems like you are not a fan nor friend of his right? Also, how much are you into Dr. Sungenis and his stance on the Jews as well as his position on "works of the law"? I really like us to be great friends, that's why we are connected on Facebook :) how do you see Dr. Art Sippo too? Is he arrogant? NOTE: I JUST WANT TO UNDERSTAND YOU MORE CLEARLY OK. I love you Catholic zeal. (Sent to You on Facebook Message dated: 03 March 2010)

I can't find the messages I sent you on Gmail. It's quite unfortunate.

But anyway remember King Jesus Christ says, We should love those who persecute us. Also, before we can fully participate of the Eucharist we have to reconciled with the one who has offended us. Notice this from Matthew Chapter 5 which has been the Churches Sunday reading for the past 3 weeks. The beatitude etc.